Leadership Laps
Leadership Laps explores the journeys and stories of educational leaders within Aurora Public Schools, Colorado's most diverse school district. Like a marathon, leadership requires training, perseverance, and a long-term vision. In each episode, we'll hear from those who are helping guide our district toward #DestinationAPS, sharing their personal stories, challenges overcome, leadership lessons learned, and what keeps them motivated along the way. From superintendents to principals, district leaders to classroom innovators, these conversations reveal the passion, purpose, and people behind APS's commitment to excellence. Join us as we discover how these educational leaders pace themselves through the leadership marathon while creating positive change for our 40,000 students from 130 countries of origin.
Leadership Laps
Seeing Every Student w/Jenny Herbert
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In this episode of Season 4, "Breaking Away," we sit down with Jenny Herbert, Climate and Culture Coordinator at Dalton Elementary School.
With 22 years of dedication to the APS community, as a classroom teacher, dean of students, and now coordinator, Jenny shares her deeply personal connection to education. We discuss her work implementing the Neurosequential Model in Education, launching a successful student mentorship program, and building predictable systems that allow students to thrive academically.
Jenny’s journey is a powerful reminder that school culture isn't a soft skill: it is the foundation for all student success.
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There's something powerful about the journey of leadership, the daily steps, the long-term vision, and everything we learn along the way. Welcome to Leadership Labs, where we explore these journeys with the incredible leaders of Aurora Public Schools. In each episode, we hear from those who are helping guide our district toward Destination APS, sharing their stories, their challenges, and the lessons they've learned along the way. Today, as we continue season four, Breaking Away, I'm joined by Jenny Herbert, Climate and Culture Coordinator. In her second year in this role, but with 22 years in education, all here in APS, from the classroom to Dean of Students to her current role. I learned that your dad taught at Fulton Elementary for 25 years. He did. Yeah. You a front Rosie to what it means to truly serve Aurora students and families.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so we're excited to explore your journey and your powerful belief that the most important thing we can do for students is make sure they feel seen.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Gosh. Jenny, welcome to Leadership Labs.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00I loved uh your question. I mentioned this earlier about how many takes we get.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's only one.
SPEAKER_01Oh, good.
SPEAKER_00But I do promise that you're in good hands. Okay. Now that we've done this uh a few times, and uh yeah, you're gonna be great.
SPEAKER_01I'm in good hands. I'm ready.
SPEAKER_00Tell us a little bit about who you are, and then also what your role as climate and culture coordinator looks like day to day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So um, you know, you mentioned a little bit, I've been here for 22 years in the district. Um, I was really drawn here. I student taught here. I went to college in Nebraska, but I came back here specifically for Aurora Public Schools to student teach. Um, and it was a really eye-opening experience for me. Um, I was able to see some really incredible layers that went into that. It was beyond just teaching curriculum, but there was such a diversity to the culture linguistically, all these pieces that added to that for me. Um, and I think through that lens, it allowed me to see that this was going to be more of a partnership where I was learning alongside of our families and our students, not just a one-way me teaching curriculum. So I was very driven by that and came straight back here to the roots in Aurora, um, taught in the classroom for 12 years. I loved it. Um, I was often, I say, gifted with many of the students who had higher levels of need. Um, and I loved that, but I started noticing that trend that they all ended up in my room over time. Um, so I really wanted to at one point dedicate myself to really supporting students in classrooms with those higher levels of need so that every student had the ability to learn and feel safe within the classroom. Um so I transitioned into Dean of Students, um, carried that work for several years, um, and then started thinking about how do we create more systems around supporting a school with predictability and consistency. So it wasn't just in pockets of our school. Um, so that really allowed me to venture onto this journey for the last two years with CCC. Um, so I work extensively with our leadership team to really form those pieces of our building system structures um and supporting our whole school.
SPEAKER_00So what is a what is a day-to-day look like, or like even a couple of highlights from your day this morning?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, today I was with all of our CCCs. So it looks a little different. Um, but typically um it's about creating groups and leadership teams and forming what's going to work for different classrooms. So thinking about what our tier one processes look like for every single classroom. It should feel very familiar to students when they walk into a classroom, whether they're in this one and then going over to ELM or they're in specials. Um, there should be predictable pieces along the way. And my job is to really support that work and support teachers to get there so that they feel like they have the necessary tools and strategies to make that happen. Um, so I would say predictability is my middle name right now. That's what I'm really forefronting in our building.
SPEAKER_00That's great. Yeah. Um, quick question uh just out of curiosity, did you and your dad ever get the chance to overlap as teachers in APS?
SPEAKER_01So he subbed a couple times in my early career, um, which was pretty cool for my kids to see that overlap. Um, and just fun for me to see and be alongside of him as a colleague.
SPEAKER_00Amazing.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, it was fun. It's really fun.
SPEAKER_00And I understand too, actually, Dalton had a different schedule for the testing. I think y'all were doing it today. I was gonna ask you if you had a chance to do any read aloud last week. I did, which was a really great highlight of my week last week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I just remember Dalton.
SPEAKER_01And I love that you are pushing into buildings to do that. It's really cool for our students to see. So thank you for that on your side. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh you described your leadership as positive, collaborative, and student-centered.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00How do those three words show up in your work?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think collaboration is huge. Um, no one person should be doing the work. Um, and I really think about sustainability and making sure that if one person were to leave and win the lottery today, would this work continue in a really powerful way? So making sure that we are grouping people, seeing strengths of everyone. I think that's a big deal. Um, understanding what everyone brings to the table. Um, we've done a lot of work with emergenics and trying to figure out who we are as people, as leaders. Um, you know, you have people that are very logistical and think, you know, detail points. And we have others that are big picture and dreamers and people that are very relational. All of those pieces fit together. And so I think the collaborative work is what helps us get to those outcomes. Um positivity, have to. We have to think through, you know, if there's a gap, what are we doing to fix it? We're not stalling on what the gap is, but what are we doing to really find solutions? Um, and I think people work off of each other. Mirror neurons are real. So if I'm positive and my team is there with me, we're walking, we're working off of each other. So I think it's a big deal.
SPEAKER_00Um, emergent edicts, what is what is your like primary thinking preferred color?
SPEAKER_01Green. Your green. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Mine's yellow.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah I love that. Yeah. And I think just knowing that about yourself and how you're working with others, right? It's a really supportive move to make. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Uh, you shared, you know, that your your inspiration and uh for going into education is deeply personal. And you experience both teachers who maybe misunderstood you and teachers who truly saw you. And I can really relate to that as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh I uh wanted to become a teacher because of the latter, a teacher who really impacted my life, who I wanted to be a little bit more like. Um can you share a little bit more about how that contrast between the two types of teachers maybe shaped your path?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think being able to experience both really led me to this career choice. You know, I had so many teachers that were motivational, they connected with me um relationally, um, just really, really impacted me in a positive way. I had few, thank goodness, but they made just as big of an impact that were on the negative side. So really had that wall up. They were there to teach the curriculum and they're out. The people side of things was not there specifically. I can think of seventh grade, which is a big year, but I spent more days, I think, in the dean's office than I did in the classroom. Um, so I just think of that time that was lost. Um, and you know, my feeling of a sense of belonging, 0%. Um, being able to connect with peers wasn't there because I wasn't in the space. Um, so I think about both of those pieces and how I want to show up for students and make sure that every student that walks through my doors, they are going to be seen and valued. Um and it's because of that experience on both sides that we show up in that way.
SPEAKER_00You talked a little bit about your dad being at Fulton for 25 years. What did watching him maybe building relationships or you know, impact the community, teach you about what education could be?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I got a very early glimpse of what that looks like at Fulton with my dad when I was young. Um, so I was able to see those relationships that he was building and the connections and even far beyond. I would see students running in their 20s up to my dad and still remembering what impact he had on them. And so it really helped me to just see, you know, this is far beyond a classroom setting. This goes far deeper than that. Yeah. Um, and it allows people to open pathways and avenues for their own life. Um, and you get to be a part of that journey. And so make it the positive side of that journey for these kids. Um, but that was really my first glimpse into that, which was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00Side quest question for you. Uh, do you have any students or former students, I should say, who might now be educators in APS?
SPEAKER_01Not that I am aware of, um, that would be incredible. Um, I do there's a lot of students who I do know their whereabouts and the things that they're doing to be successful in life, which is uh incredible. Yeah. Um, I get to follow some of those stories along the way, um, but not that I know of.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'll keep you posted.
SPEAKER_00Keep you posted. Uh, when we did uh All staff uh um uh welcome a couple of years ago, I ran into one of my former students at one of our schools, and this year that same student, they were in a different role than APS, but uh uh I ran into them at the back to school event and they're teaching third grade now, but they're an APS one. So that's really cool. Really cool to see. Um, I don't want to put too much, but she's probably doesn't listen to me, but uh don't want to put too much pressure on her. But she's been already recommended by a colleagues to an episode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that cycle through that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. All right. I I feel like I got a little bit of a sense of what brought you to APS as an educator.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What has kept you here for 22 years?
SPEAKER_01So I think what for me, um, I have a lens on different avenues. So I am a parent of two kids in a royal public schools. Um I love that. And I think that just a testament to what we believe in and what we're doing with this work, that I absolutely want my kids here and experiencing that. Um, but it's also about when I think about when I hand them over to these educators, that's like my most valued piece of me. And so my expectation is that they're going in and they're getting all of their needs met there. Academically, if there are gaps, that there's a sense of urgency to support them and to get them where they need to be socially, emotionally, I want their entire human self to be cared for. And so, as an educator and a leader, I have to be able to give that same dedication back to our community and our families and our students. I see every student as they're walking in as if this were my child, what would we do for them? Um, so my dedication is high. Um, and I also want them to be able to see what that experience does. My kids ask me every day, what are you doing in your school? What's happening in those classes? They ask the questions.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Um, so I want to be able to answer honestly and feel proud of the work that we're doing. So same, same, same.
SPEAKER_00I like at the drop-off, I had this moment of putting all the trust, and then I still look in the rearview mirror until they make it, you know, behind the fence. And yeah, even the other day when I picked up my son from school, uh, I had told him that I was gonna be a guest reader at another school. Yeah, of course, because he goes to one of our schools in the primary, he had a guest reader come to his class. Yeah. And so we were we were we were swapping stories and he's asked me to come and adorable connection. I love it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, you're in your second role, uh, sorry, in your second year in the uh climate and culture coordinator role. You got it. And we as a district are in our second year uh with the role. Yeah. Uh what drew you specifically to to this role?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I think for me, um, it was thinking about what our systems currently look like and being able to spread that to an entire staff beyond even what I was able to do in the dean role. So the dean role was incredible, but because I was working with all staff, I was teaching professional development, I was in those classrooms with every student. Um, but I really wanted to focus on predictability with systems. And so a couple examples are, you know, our SEL implementation. Um, we have an SEL leadership team that I'm a part of. Um, but we are really building the bridge of what we're teaching and modeling in SEL and our school values. So bridging the two together so that what kids are learning every single day, um, they are then practicing and being celebrated for when they're demonstrating those same exact um pieces from their SEL block, um adult responses to behavior. So making sure that that is aligned across the board and that there is equity within that so that students feel no matter what adult comes into play and is supporting me, whether it's I'm having a challenging moment or I'm doing incredible things, that support and that response should feel consistent and predictable across the board. And the only way to do that is through teaching, supporting staff, professional development, and creating very clear roads that they are following. Um, so we are looking across the board for predictability.
SPEAKER_00I love that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh you shared with me that one initiative you're especially proud of is your mentorship program. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit more about the program and also why it matters so much to you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So this is a program that we started last year. So it's still in the new and beginning stages. Um, this is through the SEL leadership team. Um, and what we started to notice with our students was a lot of um professional development would come and we would talk about the tiers of um support needed. And the MTSS triangle, I'm sure you're familiar with it. 80% of our students should thrive with tier one supports, and then 15% may need a little bit of extra support with tier two supports, and then you've got your 5%. And that wasn't aligning with what we were seeing in front of us with our own students. Um, we had a much higher percentage of students with tier two needs. Tier three. Absolutely, and tier three. And so I think for us to be able to match that and say what we're doing needs to match what we're seeing, the need is. Um, so we were able to create a very clear tiered criteria for staff so that they could identify very clearly who our students were who had tier two needs. And some of that came from um, you know, regulation strategies, if they had skills that were missing, some were behavior responses, um, some are community resources that were not there or needed resources, um, attendance being one. So once we were able to really identify where the need was and that there was a tier two need, we zoned in further to identify who are the students that are missing a connection with a safe and trusted adult. Because once we could identify that and put supports into place for that, all of these other gaps would start to be able to be filled as well. So identified students, we were able to create a mentorship, and that was with staff, teachers, um, providers outside of our building, um, you know, through a number of people. So we had about 41 mentorships paired. Um, and they were able to build genuine connections, trust, and then fill goals that students had. Um, and so a credible experience. Again, year one. So we're going to go into year two, make refinements, um, and continue to build those connections for students. That's great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, you also shared with me uh um something that you wanted me to ask you about. And I'm so curious about how you've incorporated the neurosequential model into adult learning. And maybe if you can share with us a little bit about that process as well as how that maybe has shifted the way you think about supporting both adults and students.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we do monthly professional development. So it's so critical for me to make sure that staff understands what behavior is so that we're not going into situations and we're taking it personally and then responding in a detrimental way. So we have the last I would say seven years, we've been talking through and learning about the neurosequential model in education and allowing for staff to understand how the brain is developed and what is happening when behavior is taking place. So they've learned about the arousal continuum and understanding that when a student is experiencing a stressor, their response is based on that stress. So a student who is alert and learning, that's going to look different than a student who's feeling a stress that then comes out and moving along the continuum as now we're in alarm or fear. Um, our response to that needs to look very different. And so teaching staff what responses to those different stages look like are supportive for not only our students, but it also gives our staff something to grasp on to and to support our students. We also teach them about the three R's. So regulating first when you have a student who's dysregulated in front of you, we can't address the behavior in that moment. So we have to regulate first. Then we're relating and connecting to students, and then we're addressing the behavior and supporting them with skills and supporting them with skill sets they may have been missing in that moment. Um it's about the teaching rather than the punitive measure, um, which is critical for staff and to just shift the mindset for the building.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You shared with me a powerful leadership lesson that before we question why people aren't growing, we need to examine whether we've created the conditions for them to feel safe, supported, challenged, and valued. Absolutely. Yeah. Would you mind unpacking that for us?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think for staff and students alike, we have to feel safe in a space where we can make mistakes and we can learn and we can grow. And so we really value that and create a condition for everyone to take on learning. We're all learners in this space. And so, and if we're expecting students to take on learning and make mistakes, we have to be willing to do that as well. Um, I think for you know, staff to realize that everything I'm taking on in professional development, this is what students go through and feel. And so taking that lesson on and being able to spread that to students is valuable. Um, and it allows all of us to grow together. I think it's also about recognizing everyone's strengths and differences because they're gonna lift our building up at different points and we're gonna be able to utilize different people's um strategies, different people's understandings of content, and really put it together to formulate, you know, growth for our whole building.
SPEAKER_00So pretty cool. That's very cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh what's one piece of advice you'd give to aspiring leaders about building culture and belonging?
SPEAKER_01I would say it's not about knowing all the answers. Um, it's really about building your people up. So making sure that You know who's in front of you and being able to utilize every piece of what people have to offer. You know, knowing that our students are valuable. So that should be the forefront of our conversation every single time. If it's off track of that, we need to really consider what is the conversation about, and we need to bring it back to the center of students and what is going to benefit them. Yes. But our people that we're surrounded by are amazing and they have incredible things to offer. So taking anything on by yourself is not needed. And it's definitely not going to get you the result that could be if you have everyone involved.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Yeah. What books or resources have either maybe influenced or impacted your approach to either, you know, climate, culture, leadership, books, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I would say the most recent one would be connections over compliance. Um, it's definitely one that looks into, you know, again, brain states and how the brain is developed. It talks about connections and relationships, how we um manage behaviors and how we can get students to a place where they are showing growth in a safe way. Um, so I feel like that book specifically is one that I would highly recommend. It's something that we utilize when we're thinking about navigating our professional development to check it out. Yeah, it's a good one.
SPEAKER_00All right. This is a curveball for you earlier, but hopefully in the last uh 20 minutes, you have some time to think about what's been playing on your music playlist lately. Okay. What's one of your most played songs?
SPEAKER_01So I'm a big Shakira fan. Um, I love uh reggaetone. Um I travel probably every other year with our best friends to Colombia. They are from Colombia, and that is where I feel like I'm my best self.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So the music there, anything on the playlist, I'm here for it.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00My family in the car, we've been listening quite a bit to uh Waka Waka because of the World Cup. Yes. Uh we're still we're still we're still riding the World Cup wave. Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's awesome.
SPEAKER_00All right. Transitioning into our lightning round.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh, what does destination APS mean to you and the Dalton community?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I think there is a clear theme of urgency this year and thinking about what are we doing for our students to get those gaps filled. And so it takes every single person in every single role to do so. Um, specifically in my role, for students to be able to lighten their cognitive load and focus on the academics, we have to be able to have these tier one practices in place. Students need to walk in, feel predictability every time. They need to feel safe physically, psychologically. They need to be a part of a community that they know without a doubt they have an important role in and that they are there for a purpose. When these pieces are in place and it's predictable across a school, then academics can then open up and they are able to focus and hone in on the academics, and that's where we're gonna see those gaps close. So I'm excited about it.
SPEAKER_00That is amazing. Yeah. Uh, you've already given a piece of advice, but in closing our conversation, is there anything else that you might say to someone who's considering, you know, either a role focused on school culture and belonging, or even thinking about making the leap from the classroom into a school leader type of role?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think, you know, for me, this has been a really eye-opening experience because all of the pieces I believed in to be so valuable and true for myself in the classroom, I'm now able to open up to a much bigger platform for people. And so um, working alongside of staff, helping them to see their own strengths and potential, getting everybody on the same page and aligned so that they start to see that impact for students is just an incredible experience. Um, I would recommend that to anyone who really sees their own strategies and skills working at a smaller level. Yeah. Opening it up bigger.
SPEAKER_00Amazing.
SPEAKER_01Go bigger, go home. I love that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. Yeah. And Jenny, thank you for sharing your journey with us uh from a student who experienced that difference that a teacher can make, the both positive and the negative impacts, uh, to being the daughter of a 25-year APS educator to someone who's now dedicated almost just as much time of your own career to APS to make sure that every student feels seen. Your story reminds me that culture isn't a soft skill, it's the foundation that everything else is built on. And breaking away toward our goals as a district really starts with every student knowing that they belong. So thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Yeah. And to our listeners, join us next time as we continue exploring the paths of those who are helping guide us toward destination APS. Until then, keep running your race with purpose.